- Anonymous

"To everyone on the ProList, please learn what you can
 within these missives and archives. And by all means,
 share what you learn with the rest of us.
 Please, let unencumbered discussion continue..."
 - Mark Holden

"I detest what you write,
 but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write."
 - Voltaire

"Best multi-generational swindle in history. Except, of course, for DeBeers."
 - Mark Holden

"You have the right to remain silent in between numbers.
 Anything you play may be used against you.
 You have the right to consult an attorney before signing any agreements.
 If you cannot afford an attorney, welcome to the club."
 - P e t e    S u r d o v a l

"Sounds like it's time for a lawyer."
 - Scott Szabo

"Unfortunately, Composers are cheaper than Lawyers."
 - P e t e    S u r d o v a l

"No one defines the market better than those who are selling their services.
 When those who provide the service choose to sell cheap or give away
 their work the whole market is devalued...In this scenario it is the parasite
 who thrives, not the host."
 - Fernando Rivas

"..if I feel dirty or taken advantage of when I sign a deal,
 it's probably not a good one."
 - BVMedia Adriel

"The 'Mo Money' mindset may be fatal, but it serves
 to increase the value of the collective product of all
 film music composers."
 - rjchase

"If you will work for a little less every year you can stay in the
 entertainment field the rest of your life"
 - Gary Mule Deer

"When a composer is told to 'rip' the temp track.. what then?"
 - Les Hurdle

"The Planets sounds to me, on some level, derivative of the french school
 of composition/orchestration.  Ravel in turn seems to be mimicing Debussey.
 Debussey in turn is errr......well he might be the real deal in terms of originality.
 So if there were a way to have Holst sue Zimmer, Ravel sue Holst,
 Debussey sue Ravel, and then somehow have Zimmer sue Debussey,
 the circle of life would be complete."
 - Andrew Feazelle [in reference to the Hans Zimmer score for Disney's "The Lion King"]

"Dude!...never admit you 'borrowed'."
 - Les Hurdle

"There will be a lot of paperwork involved...
 but that is why it is called show BUSINESS." 
 - Scott Szabo

"If you have music on the air or via any other outlet and are not paid
 in this day and age, the right, for you, has disappeared."
 - Attributed to Les Hurdle

"In the absence of clarity, there lies truth"
 - unknown 

"What happens when the music goes overseas?"
 - Les Hurdle

"The Internet didn't thrive because of communication.
 It thrived because of commerce." 
 - Brian Lee Corber

"...the  most inaccurate source of information about
 a particular PRO is...that PRO."
 - Brian Lee Corber

"...I'm outta here!"
 - Brian Lee Corber

"To see ASCAP bury their heads in the ground when it comes to CPA music
 is shameful, unethical, and unprofessional. It's nothing short of musical
 segregation, with some types of music getting the royal treatment,
 and others treated like dirt."
 - Mark Northam

"They will gather intelligence, lay false trails and strike at their opponents
 suddenly and with determination." 
 - A. K. Dewdney

"So why do folks on this list still vote for the [ASCAP] incumbents?"
 - Les Hurdle

"This list was founded to be as honest and uncensored a forum for
 discussion of film & TV music as decorum will allow. All points of view
 are welcome, with the caveat that a few of them may occasionally
 be argued into the ground. And with zeal."
 - Mark Holden

"It's a good idea for youth to listen to experience
 -- but it very often doesn't.  Some lessons can only be learned
 by living them."
 - Mark Holden

"The sad reality for composers is that because of the technical
 ease with which music can be created these days the field
 has become crowded with half-assed amateurs and total idiots
 who compete ON THE SAME LEVEL as someone who has long years
 of training and experience.  This would be tantamount to a
 hamburger flipper being called in to do brain surgery simply because
 he could do it on the cheap or for nothing...just to get known."
 - Fernando Rivas

"I'm paying some kid trumpet player $500 a week, and he can't even blow his nose."
 - Tommy Dorsey circa 1943 

"For a 'composer' these days background and education,
 even experience, often count for nothing.
 You may be competing with a high school kid with rich parents
 and lots of gear in his bedroom."
 - Fernando Rivas

"...We must find it within ourselves to come to terms with the fact
 'schooling' does not make the composer.
 ... many whistlers have produced 'good stuff'."
 - Les Hurdle

"I always thought the ability to allow a creative mind to do
 what it wants, via a machine, to be a good thing.
 The need to be able to notate restricted many. Hence the
 hummers and whistlers. The problem is with out 'education',
 which goes along with working with other composers
 [older usually], the new talent doesn't know what the rules are."
 - Les Hurdle

"Those who at first learn and understand the rules,
 only then possess the power and license to bend and
 break them all at will."
 - rjchase

"The rests are more important than the notes."
 - Miles Davis 

"Producers will work wherever they choose
 and no amount of union posturing or selective enforcement
 will change that."
 - Rick Blanc

"Union Suits looking after business suits...
 .. for the next personal employment !"
 - Les Hurdle

"I never really understood the "suit" conceit;
 are these jobs really so good that they'll do anything
 to keep them?  Don't they get voted in no matter what they do?
 Seems musicians are notoriously uninvolved in their own affairs.
 What's the profit motive here for these guys?"
 - Scott Heally

"I shall always remember David Raksin at an ASMAC function
 wishing David MacMurray and myself 'good luck' trying to
 organize composers."
 - Les Hurdle

"The AFM announced it would no longer tolerate union members
 engaging in nonunion production...
 The AFM is racing to the precipice, waiting for the next generation
 to ask the only relevant question: 'Who needs these guys anyway?'"
 - Rick Blanc

"A committee is a cul-de-sac down which ideas are lured
 and then quietly strangled."
 - Sir Barnett Cocks

"The music business is a cruel and shallow trench,
 a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free,
 and good men lie like dogs.  There is also a negative side."
 - Attributed to Hunter S. Thompson.

"What are the proposed changes at PRS going to mean to you?
 What is product placement in the download world going to mean to you?"
 - Les Hurdle

"Since the PROs won't release the estimated amount of score vs. song,
 mathematical predictions are difficult to calculate, of course.
 But then again, that's how the PROs like to keep us
 --  ignorant of the overall financial big-picture regarding our royalties
 as an industry. But then again, they can only do this
 because we allow them to."
 - Mark Northam

"One must nail notices to suited foreheads !"
 - Les Hurdle

"...do not misconstrue the silence of the many
 as acquiescence but merely resignation."
 - Fernando Rivas

"...keep in mind that the PROs certainly operate within the law,
 so we're not discussing anything illegal here. Immoral, unethical, unfair,
 discriminatory, unprofessional, maybe, but not illegal."
 - Mark Northam

"RULE of Thumb: Never hesitate to turn down a job that you would not want
 someone close to you -- your mother, children, spouse, the FBI -- to know
 that you were associated with."
 - rjchase

"Right from the start, I had a really bad feeling about that gig."
 - Lisa Simpson

"I never understood Music Creators who shoot down genres
 other than their own. That attitude always seems snobbish
 and narrow-minded.  I appreciate every form of music.
 Each piece should be judged on it's own regardless of 'genre'."
 - P e t e    S u r d o v a l

"Sorry Pete. I don't have a genre. I just shoot down lunacy."
 - Fernando Rivas

"Really, short of a lawsuit or congressional investigation
 (yea, right...), I don't see where anything is going to happen
 or get better.  Just don't see it!
 Is there a brave attorney on the list?"
 - Les Mizzel

"It is no secret that the publishers exert a disproportionate
 amount of control at the PROs, and let's not forget that the
 publishers own the copyrights in most cases.  So exactly
 where does that leave score composers in terms of performance
 royalties?  [crickets]"
 - Mark Northam

"How do you know your product has been downloaded?
 How do you know you should be paid?"
 - Les "More Hurdles" Hurdle

"We seem to have become sub-human machines bred to generate
 income for others with no pay to ourselves. And, if we complain
 about it and want better, then they'll find another sub-human
 willing to accept the deal."
 - Scott Szabo

"PRO's without a 'mechanical' arm will not survive.
 Now what will you all do?"
 - Les Hurdle

"Les Hurdle will love this one!
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6186436.stm]
 - James Ryan

"So do I !!  It's up to you to make sure it doesn't happen to you!"
 - Vic Flick

"Those of you who saw the new Bond movie might want to know... the 
 [guitar] sound used in the 007 Monty Norman Theme at the end is a dead
 RIPP OFF of the sound originally 'produced' by Vic.
 And the 'rights' stop with us !"
 - Les Hurdle

"Wonder what I would have got$ for the disco bass line ;-("
 - Les Hurdle 

"Not to mention all over the Smirnoff commercials too - Vic's sound with the
  classic maj7+5 chord at the end..."
 - Mark Northam

"...it is financially sickening to hear 'myself' day in and day 
 out and not get a penny. I have consulted attorneys on misappropriation 
 protection and have been told it's nearly impossible for a featured 
 singer to obtain compensation so virtually impossible for a recording 
 musician.  Burger, anyone?"
 - Vic Flick

"New acronyms for ASCAP:
 Amazing Scamming Collection Agency Procedures
 Always Screwing Composers Avoiding Payout
 Accounting Secrecy Confuses All Parties"
 - Fernando Rivas

" Arrogant Suits Collecting A Paycheck"
 - Mark Northam 08/15/07

"I wonder how well people in the retail world would take it if Wal-Mart
 decided to scan stuff only once every 3 months and pay their  
 suppliers accordingly."
 - Claude Castonguay 

"I get a copy of all cue sheets before the show airs so that I can check for errors.
 Then I forward a copy electronically to ASCAP as a backup to Production.
 Would I rather be playing the piano? Yes. Is it a pain in the ass? Yes.
 But I get paid!  Last time I looked it is called show business."
 - Scott Szabo

"How many of you would send money to your electric company without receiving
 a bill first?"
 - Scott Szabo

"If they won't let you see full reports and accounting, continue with 
 their screwy survey practices, don't bother to find ways to get us paid 
 for new technologies (downloads), and don't bother to correct huge 
 mistakes from the past (no theatrical royalties?), how the heck do you 
 know what you're getting?"
 - Les Mizzell

"Occasionally, one will escape and have his own career ..God bless him !"
 - Phil Kelly

"There's another one about a conductor who stabbed himself in the hand with
 the baton and had to be hospitalized."
 - Fernando Rivas

"note to self:
 keep pointy objects away from the conductor."
 - Rolin Mains

"People calling themselves 'composers' and people who can hire them
 calling themselves 'producers' may be a dime a dozen -
 but the real article is still REAL hard to come by."
 - Fernando Rivas

"You may think that; I couldn't possibly comment."
 - Ian Richardson

"Come on Les, chill for a moment."
 - Ford A. Thaxton

"Pleasantries cost nothing  ;-)
 I presume ya'all intended to make some $$'s?"
 - Les Hurdle

"My personal opinion is that the average crap factor is directly proportional
 to the percent of midi players to live players.  Of course there's always exceptions,
 but there's just something romantic about live players pouring [there] hearts out."
 - Andrew Feazelle

" 'It's time to stand up an holla
 we ain't gonna take 20 cents on a dolla'
 If you sing it out of key to a background of unpitched noise, then  
 does it qualify as an instrumental?"
 - Joel Braverman

"The only 'judice' I can be accused of is post-judice, not pre-judice."
 - Rick Blanc

"Cultural war?  Sign me up.  Where's the frontline?"
 - Fernando Rivas

"Maybe it's the home theaters, nights spent in chat rooms, email,
 cellphones, etc that have isolated people to the point that they've
 lost some of their social skills. Or maybe I've just joined the 
 Kids-These-Days Old-Farts club."
 - P e t e    S u r d o v a l

"I guess it's the same argument for probably a few of us who grow up
 in less-than-desirable neighborhoods, and got called snobs for our
 classical leanings.  I've never gone Amadeus on anybody's arse, though. ;)
 - Dana Detrick-Clark  Serious Vanity Music

"arse?"
 - Les Hurdle

"Regarding cue sheets, I ALWAYS do my own.  I work it out with the prod co
 ahead of time, and in every case in my experience so far, they are only too
 happy to have me take it off their hands."
 - James Ryan

"So what's going to happen when our work from libraries start ending up
 on these amature type productions on viral-video networks?  ASCAP & BMI
 getting any further on this issue?"
 - George

"Once again, the suits seal the deal before any method of payment
 to the music composer is considered.
 Will to live...slipping away..."
 - rjchase

"...And why aren't the systems of payment in place before these things go live?
 Are any of you working streaming media into your current contracts?  How are 
 you doing it?"
 - Dana Detrick-Clark

--- SLeMone@ascap.com wrote:
"I will be out of the office starting 01/09/2007 and will not return until 01/16/2007."

"Yeah, and we're really gonna miss you."
 - rjchase

"Who says the PRO's don't troll this list, but never
 answer questions..."
 - Les Hurdle

"In the corporate world, one does not pay to submit a resume. One pays to list
 a job and get resumes.  In the music world, the complete opposite: the musician
 is charged for the privilege of submitting a resume for a job."
 - Joel Braverman

"I'm sure McDonald's has to spend a lot of money to
 advertise for Burger-flipper Jobs.  Steven Speilberg
 probably doesn't have to advertise for Composers."
 - P e t e  S u r d o v a l

"Try talking to an accountant about music theory and see the  
 eyes glaze over..."
 - Joel Braverman

"Some people dedicate their whole lives to finding the hottest chilli pepper,
 skateboarding, or carving potatoes in the likeness of Jackie Onasis.
 It makes me feel a little better about my un-ending obsession for music."
 - P e t e  S u r d o v a l

"Money and passion are usually not linked.  It happens now and then
 but as rarely as true love."
 - Fernando Rivas

"If everyone got paid for every bit of music that aired, wouldn't the  
 amount be so staggeringly different from current numbers that every  
 writer's piece of the pie would shrink considerably (or some other  
 massive shake-up to the status quo) that nobody in charge wants to go  
 there?  Is that it?
 - Todd Burns

"You are correct.  ASCAP Board members and staff have said in public:
 "If we paid for every piece of music aired there would be no money for anyone...
 It is not cost effective to pay everyone."
 - Les Hurdle

"Shouldn't this imply that the usage fees that networks, stations, venues, 
 etc. should be higher to reflect the actual cost of music usage?  Am I 
 misunderstanding how that works?"
 - Dana Detrick-Clark

"FOLKS... PLEASE... don't give up your mechanicals... it is almost certain
 [IMHO] the mech will be the only right available in years to come.
 What we all need to do is retain a share of the copyright !!!!"
 - Les Hurdle

"What we're seeing is the strategic non-use of technology in order to
 maintain the wealth levels of certain groups of members."
 - Mark Holden

"Well put, Mark. Along with fear of the new technologies there is also a lack
 of understanding about what can be achieved with them... Not only does
 stupidity err on the side of greed - greed feasts on ignorance,
 and perpetuates it for its own best interests.
 - Fernando Rivas 

"Could this be the start of the grand awakening?
 I hope so, for all our sakes."
 - Vic Flick

"Sadly, without a strong score composer presence on the board, we can expect
 the same kind of massive discrimination against score music and those who
 write it as we've seen for so many years now."
 - Mark Northam

"It stands to reason that if [the PRO's] could get their hands on more money and
 make a greater percentage they would certainly do it. Even if they had to
 cook their books in the microwave to do it."
 - Fernando Rivas

"After all, ASCAP has OUR money to spend to defeat US in any challenge to
 their policies - it doesn't cost THEM a thing..."
 - Mark Northam

"Everything stops for Tea."
 - Attributed to John Baldry

"We've run out of steam.
 Bitch about ASCAP... Nothing happens
 Propose asking/demanding explanation/whatever from ASCAP.
 ... Nothing happens
  Wonder why the suits are making millions on music downloads
 on the Internet and where the hell are my
 royalties from this? ... Nothing happens
 Think that about covers it all, right?
 What else do we have to talk about now?"
 - Les Mizzell

"Hey, how do you feel about the sound you get when you double your tuba 
lines with an alto flute?-"
 - Les Mizzell

"I feel good!" - James Brown
 - P e t e  S u r d o v a l

"Clients say "You're getting money from ASCAP so we don't need to pay you 
 that much. If you expect anymore from us then we'll just use our library 
 for everything and you can find work elsewhere." "
 - Les Mizzell

"Composers do seem to have run out of steam, both in their interest
 and their desire to 'follow the dollar.' The suits, by their constant
 procrastination and ineptitude have won the day. Composers do the work
 and the suits get the money. 
 "Reminds me of an earlier period in American history!"
 - Vic Flick

"Speaking of doubles... if you hired Rahsaan Roland Kirk to play his 3
 saxophones and nose-flute simultaneously does he get quadruple scale?"
 - Chris Alpair

"Perhaps Mr Jobs should release an unlicensed version of his FairPlay system
 so that everyone can just play any music on any box just like an iPod.
 That is what he is asking composers and songwriters to do.  He rejected that
 idea but we should give up what little tracking (and collecting) ability we do have.
 - Scott Szabo

"It's us "fringe" folks that have a few things out there, but not tons, 
 that REALLY need fairness in reporting and payments. We can use every 
 single dime we can get our hands on to try and continue our art."
 - Les Mizzelle

"Thank you guys and gals that post on the Fmpro email list... thanks Les, Pete,
 Mark, CM, Scott, Dana, Fernando and all you regulars, I am learning a lot
 from you guys!"
 - Chris Alpair

"Once again, this list is such a phenomenal resource for those of us who are
 still new to the industry, and I thank all of you who are so willing to share
 the wealth of your knowledge."
 - Dana Detrick-Clark

"I saw a great bumper sticker the other day...
 United We Negotiate, Divided We Beg"
 - P e t e  S u r d o v a l

"PRS (Performers who are Royally Screwed)...
 In good fun, of course  :-) " 
 - Mark Northam

"What is happening is that technology is slowly usurping the individuality of the
artistic creator and performer. There will come a time when originality and
individuality will no longer be esteemed or even desired qualities."
 - Fernando Rivas

"Time to re-think the traditional composer business model."
 - Mark Northam

"Bear in mind, no matter what happens, the owners, record co's-  publishers etc.,
 will not suffer one  little bit.  They will in fact be paid 100%  of all receipts !!"
 - Les Hurdle

"Certain things like elections or the Olympics really point out how TV is
 terrible. You have to wait for the guy to talk about the thing you care
 about or you miss the event and want to go back and see it.
 Internet presentation of these things is vastly superior."
 - Bill Gates

"I already feel like the internet is slowing down from
 people downloading videos and using the internet as
 their phone system."
 - P e t e  S u r d o v a l

"...the precedent it sets and the fact that ASCAP & BMI seem perfectly willing
 to give up the battle for performing rights in music downloads are alarming
 to say the least as far as composers go."
 - Mark Northam

"read it and weep" 
 - Phil Kelly  [in ref to 'Jobs Calls for End to Music Copy Protection'
 By JOHN MARKOFF February 7, 2007]

"Hey, you with the rake, go play that violin."
 - jon j kirch

"Perhaps Mr. Jobs should release an unlicensed version of his FairPlay
 system so that everyone can just play any music on any box just like an
 iPod. That is what he is asking composers and songwriters to do."
 - Scott Szabo

"Everything that can be seen or heard can and will be digitized and
 shared freely. Expect this to continue to increase and become the norm."
 - Joel Braverman

"What makes me mad is the fact many still think the
 hind tit of ASCAP/BMI etc will continue to pour forth."
 - Les Hurdle

"So the obvious question is: When will ASCAP to make a deal and start using
 this [Mediaguide] data to pay composers, especially CPA composers, for all 
 those missed television performances."
 - Mark Northam 

"For ASCAP, the dissatisfaction and unfair treatment of composers isn't a
 problem that they even acknowledge...  It's part of their business model.
 They don't want a resolution."
 - Tracey Larvenz

" ASCAP has so many indefensible policies I stopped counting
 years ago.  And of course, they stopped answering questions once I and others
 started asking "the right questions" that threatened to reveal the ugly
 details about how discriminatory and prejudicial their rates and policies
 are towards instrumental music."
 - Mark Northam

"I trusted PRO's and publishers.......... then I woke up"
 - les hurdle

"...is it *understandable* that the less moral among us might think that
 getting work is a proper trade-off for pay in the early stages of  one's career
 ...are we composers or buddhist monks?"
 - Rolin Mains

"Being principled and dignified is not a commodity which can be traded or
 sold to advance one's career.  They are traits which shape and define your
 character and your career."
 - Jason Poss

"sure, once you cross over into the dark side and sell your soul, you  
 may never get it back.  but, here in Nashville, sometimes it can feel  
 like having a demo reel (at the cost of your dignity) is way better  
 than not having a demo reel at all."
 - Rolin Mains

"Too bad for once an ASCAP person (maybe some of the ASCAP staffers who
 monitor this list even!) would come out and address some of these issues and
 answer some of the many unanswered questions that have been asked here over
 the years.  Their silence speaks volumes."
 - Mark Northam

"Mark,   Do you *know* that there are ASCAP ppl on this list?  I hope 
 not, as the idea that they're just watching this all go by would sicken 
 me.  The gall!"
 - Sean Jackson

"There definitely are ASCAP people on the list, because from time to  
 time we all get spammed with an ASCAP "out of office" notification  
 when fmpro messages are sent out."
 - Tracey Larvenz

"Shawn LeMone is one of the top Film/TV people in the LA ASCAP office, and is
 one of the most knowledgeable people about how film/TV distributions work at
 ASCAP.  The fact that he never addresses any of the questions about ASCAP on
 this list, even when directed to him specifically, is troubling to me..."
 [cue for Shawn to respond with a personal attack against me or
 others, but still not answer the questions]

"As you also may have seen, ASCAP Board member Doug Wood has responded to
 posts on this list. Usually he requests that questions be directed to him
 off-list for a personal answer, which is nice for him, but doesn't benefit
 the many other list members who could benefit from the answers."
 - Mark Northam

"Why call a bad composer?...when you can have an idiotic AI Algorithm do
 just as bad a job.  Check this out folks.  fresh from the floor of the NAB show:
 http://www.abaltat.com/productsMuseVideoDemo.cfm
 (sigh)"
 - James Ryan

"Well ..something like this was bound to happen eventually ..
 I'll bet you that some tone deaf tasteless "suits" actually try to use 
 this abomination for real fairly soon!   Then , THEY can join a PRS
 and get paid sixteen cents on the dollar for  their "score"
 ...which in this case is probably fifteen cents too much "
 - Phil Kelly  [in reference to Pete Townsend's Dynamic Composition
 "Method Music" Software]

"and of course, we're all familiar with Pete Townshends'  monumental 
 credentials as a composer of film music.  ( not to mention he's almost deaf
 from [Tinnitus] from all those years with the Who of absorbing megadecibels
 of amp noise. )"
 - Phil Kelly

"Yea but he can roll a joint with one hand and his eyes closed!"
 - Chric Alpair

"One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men.
 No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man."
 - Elbert Hubbard

"I think all [PRO] members benefit from using the best [tracking] system
 for the job. Just because the system isn't perfect, doesn't mean there
 isn't room for it to get a hell of a lot worse."
 - P e t e  S u r d o v a l

"I'd be happy with a director who at least has heard of 'Trane or Miles!  I
 keep waiting to hear from Clint Eastwood, but thus far, he hasn't called..."
"And yes, I plan to continue scoring until I'm physically made to stop."
 - Tracey Larvenz

"I LOVE this list, you are all so generous with your time, thanks for the great suggestions"
 - Gaili Schoen - Doubting Thomas Music

"You can have music without film but you can't have a film without  music."
 - Louis King

"It's a sad commentary on ASCAP's attitude towards its composer
 members, when important questions go unanswered, and only illustrates quite
 vividly the contempt that ASCAP's staff and management have for those who
 dare ask questions that they do not wish to answer. "
 - Mark Northam

"Can there be more of an impenetrable castle that we lowly
 serfs can only gaze at and wonder what happens behind the walls?  It's
 like they want to be the monolith and we the monkeys of 2001.  Democracy
 has no sway here.  Can ASCAP *be* any less American?  Yes, capitalism is
 very American, but this is ridiculous."
 - Sean

"We all get demonized one way or another... I'm really scared of cowards !"
 - Les Hurdle

"Just wanted to say a BIG THANKS to all for the amazing sharing of information here,
 and the brilliant resource this list is...
 there was so much gold during the brief and heady days
 of Conte that I started a folder of PRO Wisdom Snippets.  THANKS!!"
 - Adrian Ellis

"Here's the deal: EVERYONE else is getting shafted.  What makes you special?  Bend over..."
 - Adrian Ellis

"I've had many of my songs on television and I assumed that film royalties
 were similar to television.  That's what happens when you assume.   Oh well."
 - Brian Sullivan

"It is very important to come to terms with the fact, as we are
  learning at PRS, the entire PRO set up from negotiations to
  distribution is a fallacy, a farce, a lie, humbug,
  smoke n mirrors and all built on a house of cards."
 - les hurdle

"They have a bean counter mentality and many
  numbers speak louder than just a few."
 - Jeff H Kaufman

"7 million viewers and counting, says NBC...[http://www.nbc.com/Video/rewind/]
 It would be interesting to see how much extra the PROs charge the networks
 for these additional streams, if anything."
 - Mark Northam

"First thing I noticed was the Ads !!  Where's that money?"
 - Les

" 'something for nothing' starts with the reduction of a right."
 - Les

"In our little world of global vastness, it is not the
 PRO CEO, the 'BEST' composer/songwriter or the 3.00am
 chord guy who choses what to air.
 At the end of the day it is the public who decide what
 to watch."
 - Les

"ASCAP has certainly shown me *nothing* that indicates I'll ever see a 
 single dime for anything played/downloaded over the internet.  Where does 
 this "collected" money end up?"
 - Les Mizzell

"Maybe it's time to visit a good lawyer to draw up a
 better contract. Again, the same contract could be
 used for other outlets. If you have one fisherman
 interested, there are probably other fisherman waiting
 on the docks."
 - P e t e  S u r d o v a l

"Come on lurkers, type your name to help keep our art form alive:
 [ http://www.composersforafairdeal.com/signatures ]
 Thanks to all who have already signed."
 - Tracey Larvenz

"Never in my life have I seen an entire industry full of people so willingly
 and silently accept second-class status when it comes to pay.  I have to
 wonder what they are afraid of... Third class status?"
 - Mark Northam

"It makes me wonder... if [PROs] built cars, they'd probably still have
 cranks on the front of them."
 - Mark Northam

"If PRO members are intelligent enough to master one or more musical
 instruments, they should be able to the handle the honest and open
 administrative deductions to their personal income."
- Jim Chase

"What would PRO members do if they knew the entire process was a con?"
 - Les

"I had a chance to talk with Derek Sievers (CD Baby founder) at a  
 conference this Spring.  He seemed like a very upfront guy...
 He did not make a lot of friends on the panel but I got the impression
 he didn't care what they thought of him as long as the musicians
 in the audience got the message that they did not need 
 "Big Industry" anymore."
 - dean stairs

"CD Baby is of-course .. 'big industry' !!
 What musicians and composers must be aware of is their mechanical  
 rights.  Lose 'em... you LOSE in perpetuity."
 - Les Hurdle

"Ah, I remember back in the late 90's when I was one of only a few thousand 
 ( which seemed massive at the time) using it to sell CDs.  I felt so 
 progressive!  Now I feel like I'm catching up!"
 - Dana Detrick-Clark Serious Vanity Music: http://www.seriousvanity.com

"Nobody's music is more important than anyone elses,
 no sliding scale, no weightings.  It seems to me that this
 is the type of business model we would like the PRO's to adopt."
 - dean stairs

"I will be out of the office starting  07/03/2007 and will not return until
 07/16/2007.  I will respond to your message when I return. If you require immediate
 attention, please contact Alisha Davis at 323.883.1000."
 - SLeMone at ASCAP

"Wow...... I'd like Mr L's job ;-(
 Kidding..."
 - Les Hurdle

"If you had that position at ASCAP, would you take 2 weeks off every 
 six weeks? ...and if you did, would you announce it publicly?  Nyeh!"
 - Jim Chase

"Too bad Shawn chooses not to participate in the list - I guess he just wants
 to keep an eye on the posts (and who's posting, perhaps)..."
- Mark Northam

"We must go public with our concerns and shame the Ivory Tower dwellers
 into doing something. How about the O'Reilly Factor, or 60 Minutes, or 
 Hannity and Colmes, or any TV Show that would see the inequity of the 
 situation? I've written to O'Reilly but have not received a reply, 
 but......if we all wrote!!"
 - Vic Flick

"I must say, as much as I bitch at young guys for 'taking the cash'...  
 where has 'doing the right thing' got the rest of us."
 "Vic,  please send O'Reilly Factor  contact data..... perhaps a few 
 from this list would write.
 - Les Hurdle

"O'Reilly? You've got to be kidding. Unless its got soundbite on it that dog
 won't hunt.  Now if some composer joined Al Quaida and committed some
 terrorist act or had an affair with Bill Clinton you might have a shot."
 - Fernando Rivas

"No, I'm not kidding.  That 'dog' will hunt if he sees somes tasty flesh
 or something to get his teeth into."
 - Vic Flick


TO BE CONTINUED...